When Is It Not Subtext?

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Delicious Denial	When Is It Not Subtext?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 54 (12/10/07 1:39 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None So for a while now, I've been marveling that subtext could be considered subtext. Yes, I understand others have different ideas and I do respect their right to them. However, I wonder what they'd have to do on the show for it not to be considered subtext anymore. I mean it seems to me that no matter what they did, there'd be some far fetched circumstantial explanation. As in "Well she had to kiss her so that Beowulf would finally leave her alone!" "They call each other lover because of all the rumors and they think it's funny." "They watch each other's butts because they have to watch each other's backs." ETC. So I was wondering what you think they could have done on the show that couldn't possibly be explained away. If you wanna make it fun, the next person could come up with the wild explanation that would surely follow. I really look forward to seeing what you guys think up.
xenawp7706		#1	[-]
Posts: 151 (12/10/07 7:00 AM) Petty Officer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think the producers did it on purpose so the people could see it as they wanted.
HelAreyn		#2	[-]
Posts: 16 (12/10/07 10:22 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And to possibly present another point of view on things, such as them being a couple, but without it being the obvious thing.
SaraXenite		#3	[-]
Posts: 13 (12/10/07 11:40 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	this is very interesting, thank you for briging that up DD. I see everything that is out of the usual 'friends' catagory, wich is a lot. And altough some friends hug a lot, and hold hands I don't tend to do that a lot with my usual friends, so that's subtext for me.(and don't forget---all sooooo cute :P) but I didn't know that some people actually explained some subtext things, and I would like to know what other explenations there were for subtext. (the looking at each otter's butt is just ridiculous, and funny :P)
everhope		#4	[-]
Posts: 20 (12/10/07 12:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I believe people just coined the term subtext and then used it for everything, even when it was blatantly not. Though it didn't help that the show basically was always changing, you had maintext in season six.. then you had Xena/Ares, Gabrielle/Virgil, Gabrielle/Beowulf, Gabrielle/Brunhilda... they basically tried to hint at any physically possible pairing.
dark hunter silver		#5	[-]
Posts: 22 (12/10/07 12:23 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	When is it not subtext? The only answer I can think to give here is S5 because in my view that season has hardly any subtext in it and leans more towards the shippers than the subbers.
Buckwolf		#6	[-]
Posts: 44 (12/10/07 1:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Y'know, when it comes down to it, (mind you I'm such a huge subber) in the end, when i REALLY look at it, what Xena and Gabrielle have is really rare and hard to define. I sorta understand it because it's what I had with my best friend (i use 'had' because i no longer talk to her, it's a sad story i've shared with few but it's definitely another story). in a way, no matter what, no matter the boyfriends that come and go, we always love each other the most, but it's not a sexual kind of love. Of course I'll gladly kiss her if asked to, but I wouldn't just do it randomly, y'know? and we've been through literally everything together, hell and highwater and the goods and the bads, we've saved each other, betrayed each other, we have so much fun being crazy or crying together, etc. etc. we get dressed together, sleep in the same bed when we sleep over, i mean, it's like, she's almost a sister to me, but not exactly and even MORE. and she does often ask me if i love her, and i told her that i'd always love her and she'd tell me she loves me too. even though we are not speaking now, i would gladly throw everything away at a moment's notice if she really needed me, and i think i always will. a lot of people have mistaken us for a lesbian couple but we can tell that we're just not, because it's just not LIKE that. so... is it really subtext? i almost wanna say "what subtext? it's all main text!" but i guess they meant subtext as more of a sexual relationship the two women would share. and i guess it really depends on what your definition of it is. k, well, sorry about that embarrassing little rant. i just dunno if anyone sees this my way.
Xenasgrrl		#7	[-]
Posts: 131 (12/10/07 1:56 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know what you mean Buckwolf. I've had a few really close friends like that. And some of us were really affectionate, too, although not sexual. But, especially now, as an adult, I just see so many things between Xena and Gabrielle that I just can't imagine with a "friend." It's hard to name them specifically but just the other night I was watching an episode and they embraced and Xena kissed Gabby's forehead and it just....REEKED of love...love love...IN love, two people who were just in love. shrugs to me that was why most of the time it was maintext to me. I saw that between them most of the time, even if TBTB tried to throw us for a loop once in a while.
meaurel		#8	[-]
Posts: 17 (12/11/07 7:30 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think when you are really intimate with someone, lover or friend, you do those things. They are obviously not infatuated with each other. So they would have to have skipped that part to begin with. And as far as I'm concerned Infatuation is really important before you can fall in love. Since there was no infatuation, there is not romantic love. Thats my opinion, and not the truth. I accept that other poeple have other opinions. But I really only see them as very good friends. Really intimate friends. I envy their friendship. And I dream of such a friendship. That dream would fall apart if its romantic love, and not friendship love. So... I think the show intended for it to be mystery, so both subtexters and none-subtexters could like it. Lets face it, there are a lot of homophobic people out there, who wouldn't watch the show if they knew it was about lesbian people. So.. yeah, thats about it from here.
LadyKate63		#9	[-]
Posts: 330 (12/11/07 8:05 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Meaurel, just a quick reminder. This is the subtext forum and while non-subtexters are welcome to post here, it's inappropriate to post in a thread for the sole purpose of saying that you see the X/G relationship only as a friendship and not a romantic relationship. There are other forums where you are free to express your opinions on the subject, but this is the subtexters' "home" and other posters should respect that. I'm sure you meant no harm, you haven't been around the board much and haven't had much experience with the forum rules. So this is just a friendly reminder. Thank you. LadyKate XOC Moderator
GirlWithAChakrem		#10	[-]
Posts: 117 (12/11/07 8:35 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think by keeping Gabrielle and Xenas relationship in subtext, it allowed all the beauty and mystery of there relationship to be kept. I think if the team had came out and said, "Yep. their Gay", there could have been alot of pressure on the team to make the show more raunchy, which in my opinion could ruin the relationship for me. I know theres homophobia out there, but I personally know more people who would call for more lesbian sex, than would stop watching (male and female) lol. Im sure the team could have wrote this in well, but it could have been an issue they just didnt want to handle. There is also some people of the oppinion the Xena and Gabs relationship was beyond sex, while im not sure whether or not I agree with this or not, I dont know if there relationship would loose something if it was spelt out in the show. I like exploring there relationship through discussions and through music videos and I dont think this would be as interesting if we were flat out told what they ment to each other.
Buckwolf		#11	[-]
Posts: 44 (12/11/07 10:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I totally agree with you GirlWithAChakrem, on all the points, well said!
Xenasgrrl		#12	[-]
Posts: 131 (12/11/07 1:28 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I won't comment on Meaurel's post being anti-subtext because LK has already addressed that. I just wanted to point out that in MY opinion, you don't have to have "infatuation" for romantic love. To me, infatuation is something I have with celebrities, or...when I was in 7th grade. With my current gf, we were friends for years and finally became lovers and partners. I never would say I was infatuated with her. And GWAC, I get what you're saying as well, but I would have been perfectly happy with Xena and Gab being "outed" during the show. They could have been outed and still kept their sexual relationship off screen...most hetero relationships on tv are like that anyway. just because there is a gay or lesbian couple certainly doesn't make it neccessary for the show to become "raunchy." Although it could have been made so, I guess. It could also have been very classy and romantic, but that is not how TBTB wanted things, so there ya have it.

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